CONTEXT MATTERS
This season’s theme is Relationship to Self.
When our mutual friend introduced me to Sheri, she described her as a dear friend who is “full of love and vision and dreams and compassion and hunger for aliveness. She’s a friend with the ability to see you with fierceness and depth — and with the courage to allow herself to be seen as well.”
A few years ago, Sheri decided to create an entirely new path for herself. She dedicated herself to raising her two children in the Pacific Northwest and now that they were adults, it became clear that it was time to reexamine her life. At the time of recording, she was already a couple of months into her solo Moroccan travels. As our conversation unfolds, Sheri tells her story of personal growth, expanding horizons, and cultivating a relationship with herself, one day at a time.
This conversation is FULL of good chocolate-y nuggets. So honored to have Sheri as my first interview guest. This is easily going to be my favorite part of the SS community.
🎧 Press play to enjoy. If you’d rather read, scroll down to the transcript below (edited for length and clarity).
❤️ After you give it a listen, like and/or share your thoughts in the comments. What were some memorable takeaways from the conversation? Do you have your own story of reclamation? Isn’t she a beautiful work-in-progress?
SHOW NOTES
What Sheri loves about Morocco and what drew her there
Building a foundation of self-trust through the power of guiding questions
Changing lenses and how they impact decision-making
The risk and reward of trusting oneself (Spoiler Alert #1: No regrets)
I challenge Sheri to live out a dream before she leaves Morocco (Spoiler Alert #2: She completes the challenge the next day!)
It’s okay to be scared… but be brave, too.
Call for Studio Guests!
🎙 We’re always looking for our next few Studio Guests to interview! While you may not think you have anything to talk about at this moment, I believe you are a brilliant work in progress. Together, I am sure we can find something to explore. If any part of you is nudging you to have a heart-centered chat with me, reply to this email.
Or if you know of a friend who might be interested in telling their story of being a human in progress — share this email with them.
Interview Transcript
Note: This interview has been edited for length and clarity.
Hi, Sheri, thank you so much for being here in the studio with me today.
It’s great to be here, Milan, thank you.
Today, I’d really love to start with just where we are. How has your day been?
It’s been a good day. It’s been kind of low-key and boring, which is okay with me. Low-key and boring’s good.
I’m in Casablanca right now in Morocco, and it’s kind of a crazier city. I’ve seen much more relaxed cities. I don’t really enjoy getting out too much in the middle of the day here because it’s very busy and noisy. I take a lot of walks at night. After I get off with you, that’s probably what I’ll be doing.
You were last in Fes and now you’re in Casablanca. How are you choosing these cities that you’re in?
Well, I basically just go based on history. I want to see all the historical parts of Morocco. There’s so much, so much history here. It’s just beautiful. The architecture is what draws me in most. I’ve stayed in several cities in Morocco. And my favorite is a little seaside town called Essaouira. It’s just small and most of the cities have a medina. It’s kind of like a fortified city where it looks almost like if you’re on the outside, it looks like castle walls, but on the inside, there’s a bunch of homes and businesses.
I went to Fes to look at the medina. They’re also known for their leather and they’re known worldwide for their tannery. And then I wanted to go to a town called Meknes and right outside of Meknes is an old Roman ruin. That’s about 2300 years old. I wanted to go and see that, so I did and explored that for a while.
So you’re an architecture and history buff? Or photographer?
Amateur everything, but I love diving in. I love anything to do with architecture. When I was in college, I had an art history class and it was the first time I had ever been introduced to it. I was 18 years old and fell in love with art history. And when I was studying it, I never really studied Islamic architecture. I just loved anything to do with anything European.
And so in my goal to branch out in every aspect of my life, I decided that I would like to go someplace where it’s a lot different than what I was used to. And so that’s [how I chose] Morocco.
Morocco’s known for its amazing architecture and the artisans that create these beautiful buildings, historically, and even now. I enjoy the architecture and the art very, very much. So that’s aesthetically why I’m here and there are also a lot of personal reasons why I’m here.
Where are you originally from before?
California.
And you’re going on this adventure. How long has this adventure been going on so far?
I came to Morocco first, last August [2021]. I meant to only stay for 10 days, but I got COVID and was sidelined for a while. So I ended up staying for about three weeks. This time I went to Spain first and then came back to Morocco because there were a lot of places that I needed to explore. All in all, I’ve been gone about a little bit over two months this time, and probably heading home soon within the next week or two.
I want to give you a choose-your-own-adventure: would you rather share a little bit about what brought you to Morocco and that story leading up to it? Or would you like to share what you’re going to do when you get back?
Yeah, let’s go ahead with when I get back because that’s coming up soon and I knew that I would have to make some decisions as soon as I got back. That’s been heavy on my mind lately.
I’m at the end of getting a divorce that’s almost finalized, so I don’t really have a home right now. My home is kind of everywhere. My home base is with my mom for the time being. When I get back, I know that I need to find a community that I would like to become a part of.
I’ve got some things in mind. I’m going to go on a road trip south through California and then head through Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, and then end up in New Orleans. I’m going to visit Albuquerque, Santa Fe, Austin, New Orleans, and anything along the way that might tickle my fancy, looking for some communities along the way that seem like something that I would like to dive into and become a part of.
I have these ideas of how I want my life to look. And this has been the driving question: “Sheri, what do you want your life to look like every day?”
I want it to look like a yoga practice. It looks like a job that’s not so stressful that I have to bring it home at the end of the day. It looks like time in the sun and it looks like being part of a community, like growing vegetables together. And it’s really important to me to not consume as much. So I want to be part of a community where I can get fresh fruits and vegetables every day. Things like that are important to me. I’m going to go look for that community.
Amazing. And you pick these cities based on climate? Places you’ve never been?
That’s one of them. I know that I need sunshine. And it’s kind of basic, but I Googled most liberal cities in the United States. Because it’s important to me. I need to be part of a community that has similar ideas, as we all are looking to find people that are like us. And so places like Albuquerque and Santa Fe, Austin, New Orleans, those are all the places that came up.
It sounds like you’ve done an entire values exercise, if you will, to figure out what is important to you and you’re designing your life. You’re working backward from this vision that you have for yourself. And you’ve really pinpointed quite specifically, the things that you want! And now you’re going to go on your tour and you’re going to check those boxes and you’re going to find where you’re planning on settling long term. Is that right?
Yeah. That’s the plan. And let me tell you, Milan, it feels really, really good to get to the point where I can pinpoint the things that matter to me, because for my entire life, I’ve made every single decision, even the smallest decision, based on what somebody else needs at the moment, or what’s important at the moment. And when you do that for long enough, you forget what’s important for yourself.
For my entire life, I’ve made every single decision, even the smallest decision, based on what somebody else needs at the moment, or what’s important at the moment. And when you do that for long enough, you forget what’s important for yourself.
I’m not very good at saying, “Sheri, what do you want?” and then answering that question. I’m not used to it. And so [in finding a place to live, to ask myself], “What does your ideal life look like every day?”, and to be able to say, “I want a place with a lot of sunshine. I need a place with a lot of diversity,” may seem simple to some people, but when you have a lifetime of not being able to make even the simplest of decisions for what you need and want right now, that’s not very easy to do. Coming to those conclusions about things that are important to me in my daily life, was probably the biggest obstacle that I could have overcome up to this point.
You touched a bit on it already, but what were the challenges for you to be able to start making decisions based on what you want and not so much for others?
When I started trying to make these decisions for myself — and it still is this way, but not as much because I’m learning to trust myself — the biggest thing was seeing it through a specific lens. I would ask the question through a specific lens. And it’s very hard to move that lens, to be able to see the big picture instead of looking so specifically through that lens. The lens is (and it’s not so much anymore), “What is best for my daughter? What is best for my family? What’s best for everybody else around me?”
I was reminded [of this lens] by a really good friend tonight. I was talking to her and she said, “Sheri, you do not have children anymore. You have a son and you have a daughter.” I just really appreciated hearing that because I need to hear those things to set me free. That I don’t have children anymore that I have to worry about, and I don’t have to ask and answer those questions through that lens anymore.
“Sheri, you do not have children anymore. You have a son and you have a daughter.”
It’s an atrophied muscle, is the best way that I can describe it. When I’m reminded that I don’t have children anymore, it’s doing an arm workout in trying to build up that muscle. So I just really appreciated that reminder tonight. But yeah, it’s peering through and asking the question through a certain lens and then answering that question through that lens.
The biggest challenge has been to remove that lens and say, “Sheri, what do you need right now? What do you want right now?”, and to answer that question honestly. The more that I do that, the more I can trust myself.
It’s definitely a work in progress and probably will be for the rest of my life. That’s basically where it started, and where it still remains, but not as much [as before].
Wow. Two things that really struck me and then I'll ask you to come back to a little bit of context from, let’s say, pre-lens. The concept of lenses is really powerful. There are a couple of ways to look at it, in my opinion.
You could see it as your identity. Everybody has a way of looking at things and a way of perceiving things, and it all has to do with your life experiences, your thoughts, your beliefs, validated by your life experiences, and so on and so forth.
But people’s lenses can change over time. You can choose how you view things as well. As you said, you can view it from the perspective of the people in your life or optimize it for different things in your life. You know, what am I going to do to optimize for the most money? Or what am I going to do to optimize for the most health?Those are all different lenses I see.
What you did was take off the lens. What does that mean to you? When you said, “Ask Sheri what she wants.” Does that mean that you’re seeing everything, 20-20 and clear? Does that mean it’s not a myopic view anymore? Is it more of a wide view and anything’s possible?
I would say it’s that last one, that anything’s possible. It’s also the lens of what is most important for my value system at the time at this moment. And it could be something so simple, you know, like “Sheri, what do you need right now?” Sheri needs a nap! [laughing]
Or, it could be something that simple. “Sheri, do you need to go back to California this week or next week?” Those are the bigger decisions.
It’s more of a wide perspective, I guess, based on the situation. I like to think of it as: if I know what I want and I pursue what I need, then everything else falls into place. And I've seen that happen over and over again. My daughter’s okay. My animals at home that are being taken care of by somebody else at the moment, they’re okay. Anything around that, if I can make the decision that’s best for me, it seems to be that everything else falls into place.
I like to think of it as: if I know what I want and I pursue what I need, then everything else falls into place.
It’s an action where it falls into place, or is it a perspective that falls into place?
It can be both because, you know, if I make a decision that this is something that’s important to me or that’s good for me, it adjusts my attitude and it adjusts my outlook. And I mean, like, everybody can tell you that when your attitude is good, things fall into place, you know, it just tends to work that way.
It’s just important to make those decisions, however big or small, not through the lens of somebody else. It has to be for what’s good for me right now.
And it’s not a selfish thing. I did struggle with that, with feeling selfish. It’s more of a, I’ve got to take care of me first, and then everything else will fall into place.
Like when you’re on the airplane and they tell you to put your mask on first before helping others. It’s the same idea.
Yeah. I’ve been hearing that analogy a lot and it’s really true. The theme that I’m hearing is, you’re starting with you and your world is starting to fall in line, in terms of the vision that you're wanting for yourself. And how beautiful!
Yes. That’s exactly how it feels.
Can you give me an example of some things that have happened in that way? Just quick, nothing too detailed.
Oh, let me see.
I’m terrible at recalling scenario questions, so you can pass.
Yeah. I can’t think of anything right now. I mean, it seems like I make these decisions every day, whether, as I said, big or small. Okay, so the other night! I decided that I’m going to have ice cream for dinner. And it seems so silly. [laughing]
[laughing] Why the fk not? It was hot!
But I made that decision. And you know what? I was happier at the end of the night. It doesn’t have anything to do with anybody else, but you know what? I wasn’t able to make those decisions before. Those types of things might seem silly or trite or trivial, but it does matter.
That wasn’t the lens that you were wearing before, when you had a different priority and perspective.
When you talk about trusting yourself, what does that mean for you and what are the immediate visceral feelings or actions that you take when you choose to trust yourself?
That is another muscle that’s completely atrophied. When you make decisions, any life decisions, what you’re going to study in school or what you’re going to make for dinner, even though that’s not a life decision, there are all these decisions to make. When you make those decisions based on someone else, you don’t have to worry about trusting yourself because you’re just doing what you think is right, what’s right for somebody else.
When I have to make a decision based on something that I need, like, I wanted to go to Spain before I came to Morocco, I was so nervous about it. I was just sick to my stomach because this is another brand new place to go. I don’t know the language. I don’t speak Spanish. It was just a scary place to be.
I think when you push past that fear, you’re rewarded with, “See? It worked out and you were fine and you got to explore all these beautiful places and meet these beautiful people and see these amazing things and you’re not dead. And that your family around you isn’t dead and everybody has survived and everybody’s fine.”
I always say that you need to build that foundation before you can build the house. And right now, I’m building that foundation. When you trust yourself and you continually trust yourself to do those things, you become stronger. You’re able to make those decisions and follow through. I haven’t really run into a situation where I made a decision and I’m really regretting it, which also adds to your foundation of, “I can trust myself, I can do this, and [I’ll] be okay.”
I always say that you need to build that foundation before you can build the house. And right now, I’m building that foundation.
I’m hearing that it’s part of taking a leap of faith, but it’s starting small, asking myself, what do I want at this moment? And then making a decision based on that. And you’re quickly validated by things falling into place, by your fears being proven wrong, AND that there is no regret. And then you can look back in hindsight and say, “That decision was a good one. I can probably do that again.”
Yes. Exactly. And so when the big decisions come along, like “Where am I going to live? What community am I going to settle into?” The old Sheri would probably say, “Are you sure, Sheri? Are you sure this is the right spot? Maybe there’s something different. Is that really what you should do? What about [my daughter]? What about [my son]? What about your mom? Is she going to miss you? What about your sister? You’re going to be too far away.” All of these things, but like I said, when you make a decision that’s good for you, things fall into place. You know, if you’re happier, then the people around you are happier.
As I go along in this journey, I know that I’m getting closer to the point where I can say, “Yeah, I really do like this and yeah, I can make it work. Of course, this fits for me. This is what I’m going to do”. And then do it. I’m getting closer to that point because of all these little situations that I’ve been in and I’ve survived.
Tell me more, a little bit, or as much as you’d like, for the listener’s edification, because they’re hearing an empowered woman talking about her journey getting here. What was it like before? What might be helpful to understand how contrasting it is now?
Well, I can give you a very brief history of myself. I always say this, but I really believe that it’s true, but, when I was four and a half, my sister was born and I feel like I became a mother at that point.
My mom was very depressed. She couldn’t really function day-to-day. She had me when she was 16. And so she had two children by the time that she was 20, almost 21, and that’s a lot for a woman to take on. She was single. And so I found myself, at four and a half, waking my mom up for work, getting my sister ready for her daycare, things like that.
And so from that point on, that’s what I was: a caretaker. I was in the role of, “This is what needs to be done”. And then, I got into a relationship when I was a sophomore in high school, I met my husband and we got married when I was 19, almost 20. And about a year later, I found out on our first anniversary that we were pregnant and we had a child.
It just seems like from the moment that my sister was born, that’s what my role has been, a caretaker doing what needs to be done at the moment that day. No real long-term planning of what do I need or what do I want. As an individual, it was “I’m a mother, I’m a wife. This is what I need to do.”
I’m going through a divorce right now and it’s close to being finalized. It’s a position that I never thought that I’d be in, but I’m glad that I’m here. It was my final call to make that decision; the other half didn't really want that. Now, we’re friends. We get along really well, and he sees that it could have been better. It’s good for both of us. So that’s just a basic, very quick story of where I came from.
Thank you. That just shows so deeply how you’re uprooting a core identity that no longer serves you, and now you’re essentially rebuilding who you are and getting to know yourself. That’s totally understandable if you became a caretaker of other people when you were four and a half. That is a lot. I have a five-year-old. So I’m just trying to imagine her becoming a caretaker today! She’s very self-sufficient, but that is too much to ask.
Let’s come back to today. I’m just so curious about what you're excited about right now.
I’m excited about finding my community, although it’s scary. Today, I’m excited about being in Morocco. I wake up every day and there’s always something to see. I’ve never met a more beautiful group of people. They're so… they’re just the most genuine, amazing, beautiful people. And I never thought that I could feel so safe walking the streets, you know, even late at night. Like I like to go out for my walks later at night. I definitely feel much safer here than I do in the United States, which is kind of funny, but that’s just how it is. It’s just a beautiful place to be.
Today, I’m excited about being in Morocco. I wake up every day and there’s always something to see. I've never met a more beautiful group of people.
I kind of want to hear more! Can you paint me a picture of Morocco today or what your night walk is going to be like?
Well, I’m in an apartment in Casablanca, and it’s about four blocks from the ocean, and from the largest mosque in Africa.
And, so you take the walk along the shoreline and you can see the lights of the mosque reflecting into the ocean and the sounds of the sea, the lighting. It’s the perfect temperature right now. I always run a little bit warm; I like colder temperatures. And so it’s just perfect right now.
When I’m walking around Morocco during the day, I like to be in the midst of things. I don't want to say that I’m a crowd person, cause I’m definitely not. I get overloaded pretty easily, but I like to be where the real people are. And when you go to the medina, the city center, the old city, they have souks, the outdoor markets. You can get anything you want there and you’re walking along and you can smell the spice. You smell the things that are being baked that day. They bake bread. Bread is part of the society here in every aspect. And you see the people and the faces and everyone’s just going about their business.
It all just works. It’s so crazy and chaotic, but it all just works. It’s just… it’s incredible. I love to be with people who are going about their day-to-day life, you know, I don‘t want to be where the tourists are. I’d like to see how everyone lives
When you’re driving in Morocco, that is an experience in and of itself. I don‘t drive here, but I take taxis. And the lines on the road are merely suggestions. [laughs]
It’s the most chaotic, crazy thing. I am surprised I haven‘t been in more accidents when I was in Fes. I was in a taxi that hit a woman! He was going about 30 miles an hour and I screamed “Stop! Stop!” And by the time he responded to me, I didn’t say it in Darija, which is Moroccan Arabic. I said in my language, so he didn’t really understand. I shout, and then he looks, and he sees her in about a split second. Then he hit her. That was a traumatic nightmare for everybody involved. But I’m surprised I haven’t seen more of that. It’s absolutely insane, but it all works. It’s just a magical, bizarre, wondrous, safe, beautiful place. That’s why I’m here the second time. I just, absolutely love it here.
It sounds like it has such a specific energy. It feels like I want to say “buzz”, but it’s almost like it’s ticking, in a way. Like everything just clicks.
Yep. Yep. Day after day, day after day. And some places are more traditional in some places, less traditional in others. Usually, it’s the women down at the marketplace, getting all the goods. I am just in love with older Moroccan men and women. I love these people. They’re just so beautiful and genuine and helpful. I get so many kisses on my cheeks. I’ve been invited to tea because I bought something at a shop. They’re the warmest, most loving people. And they really like to know about you. They really have a lot of questions, so it’s just fun to share in that culture.
And I don’t know, I’m just, or there’s the…I don’t know if I’ll ever do it because I’m not a photographer. I would maybe try and figure out if I could hire someone. But I really want to do this: I want to take pictures of old Moroccan faces, older men.
I want to do that! I’m not a photographer either, but you could totally learn! And even if you did it with a Polaroid camera, oh my gosh. That sounds amazing.
That would be really cool. And that would be neat. I just love their faces. The smiles, they have so much wisdom on their faces and there’s just something about them, something about them. They’re just… I’m in love!
I’m sorry, I’m feeling like nudging you a little bit here, but if I suggested, as a challenge, to take five pictures of people before you left, to take that as a souvenir just for you, with your phone, would you be up for it?
I would be. I’m always really shy about taking people’s pictures.
It’s an Islamic country and the Muslims are not very big on having their pictures taken. So I would need somebody with me to ask the question, cause not all of them speak English. There are multilingual people, they speak Darija, which is Moroccan Arabic. Like I said in French, a lot of them do speak English and I know some French, but I would feel better if I had somebody with me who could speak in Darija and, you’d offer a tip, of course, to do it. But I think that I could! I think that that would be a beautiful challenge to take you up on.
Yeah! Just a nudge. Maybe for the tea that you got invited to, maybe someone you have a relationship with, but like, just to, just to have fulfilled that little dream, and that could be a bigger one.
I think that’s a great idea. Milan. I think that I will take you up on that. I liked that nudge.
That was the most gentle challenge I could put out there. I have other friends that would just yell at me, so…
And you need those friends!
Totally. Sounds like you've got your friends that do that.
Yeah.
I’m just picturing you like having this experience, having these real memories that you're creating here in Morocco and bringing it back to the states and taking that energy and vision and searching for that, well, to have that community find you actually, and just putting yourself in the line of that, and then having that become your life from now on. That would be the ultimate manifestation story if that’s something you believe in.
Yeah, I absolutely do. And that’s my whole goal, is to bring these experiences that I’m having, bring them with me and use that when I dive into a community, to just have it all around.
It’s like a magnet or compass. You’re taking these memories and turning it into something real, which is so powerful. You are reinventing your life and the way that you want.
I’m going to read a little bit of a snippet from the person who introduced us. She’s watched you, Sheri, “choose brave and true more times than she can count. And the impact has been an honor to witness.”
And I know you’re in the process and I know that you’re making it happen, but I can see it with you. I really can. And this is so, so cool. Thank you so much for sharing your story.
Thank you. Thank you for asking me all those wonderful questions. It’s good to share. It’s not something that’s natural for me to share about myself, but I really appreciate the opportunity.
I wanted to ask you, knowing that this was scary and unusual for you to share your story. How did it feel when she reached out to you and suggested that you talk to me?
My first instinct was, “Oh, you know what my story is going to be? It’s going to be very short. Welllll, I was born and then I got married and now I’m not married anymore and I’m in Morocco.” It’s just not very natural for me to talk about myself. So I was scared.
I hope it turned out to be okay.
You’re very good at asking your questions. So I do appreciate that. You made me feel very comfortable.
Well, I’m honored to have been able to sit here with you. Is there anything else that you'd like to share? I’m imagining people listening are people who are also interested in reclaiming parts of themselves, if not excavating their whole lives. And I’m curious if you have any last advice for anybody who might be old Sheri, in this case?
I would say to be brave.
And when you’re being brave, that’s not just like, stepping forward, it’s being scared, too. It’s okay to be scared. But when you’re being brave, you're taking that fear and you're putting it in your pocket and you're saying, “Okay, fear, that’s okay that you're here. You're here to keep me safe and that’s okay.” But take the step forward. Because the rewards are great. It’s okay to feel afraid. It’s okay to feel sick-to-your-stomach afraid… but take that first step.
It’s okay to feel sick-to-your-stomach afraid… but take that first step.
The first step might be so small. It might be so tiny where you’re just looking something up on the internet or it could be something big where you're just like, I’m going to go to a place I’ve never been before and don't speak the language, and I’m going to dive right in and just see what happens and see what I learn about myself. It doesn't matter. It’s okay to be scared.
But be brave too, because the rewards are awesome.
Oh my goodness. I’m going to play this for my little five-year-old and my eight-year-old. That is such a strong lesson to learn, like now. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being here.
Thank you, Milan. I appreciate it.
P.S. The very next day, she sends me five photos of Moroccan people. Well done, Sheri. 🥰
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